Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby RCS » 27 Mar 2017, 18:21

Xiahou Mao wrote:What's HoC?


Hot Older Chicks.




I've got a few designs in the works, that wouldn't require the PHP (Naurek's too busy to program it, a big part of why the 'next' version of HoC never got off the ground). I kind of thought one based in the Heian Era would be fun to do, rather than the Sengoku era, too...but I wonder if people would go for it?



I wonder how many people clicked the link?
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby Mat » 27 Mar 2017, 19:49

RCS wrote:I've got a few designs in the works, that wouldn't require the PHP (Naurek's too busy to program it, a big part of why the 'next' version of HoC never got off the ground). I kind of thought one based in the Heian Era would be fun to do, rather than the Sengoku era, too...but I wonder if people would go for it?


I think players would go for it, but you're going to end up with ninjas, so prepare for that anachronism. It might make for a better setting in some ways if you want to go light with GMNPCs because you won't have to RP iconic people like Takeda Shingen and Oda Nobunaga (or my fave Kenshin).

Either way I'm down. I lived in Japan for three years and miss my beloved Kyushu Island. <3

And Coco Curry House. Nom nom nom.
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby Xiahou Mao » 27 Mar 2017, 20:48

You have to be careful when you go outside the traditional bounds of setting. Most people here got here because of various Koei games, be it Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Dynasty Warriors or Nobunaga's Ambition. There are plenty of other interesting historical periods to set things in with those nations, but that doesn't mean the playerbase will be knowledgeable about it, or want to play it. Making a Japan game without a cool Nobunaga, ninjas, or Ieyasu's silly helmet might cut out a lot of the things people here would want from a Japan game.
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby Bradums » 27 Mar 2017, 21:35

That's what I was thinking. I'm a huge history nerd, so I'd love to see something related to the Genpei War or Heian Era (early samurai and three - or two - feuding families over control); but it would cut out the fact that 90% of the people interested in a Japanese sim would be interested because of the Sengoku Era.

I'm for the Heian idea, but I don't know how prolific the interest in it would be, because it's more of a "niche" setting, I guess?
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby Xe of Greed » 27 Mar 2017, 21:53

RCS wrote:
Xiahou Mao wrote:What's HoC?


Hot Older Chicks.




I've got a few designs in the works, that wouldn't require the PHP (Naurek's too busy to program it, a big part of why the 'next' version of HoC never got off the ground). I kind of thought one based in the Heian Era would be fun to do, rather than the Sengoku era, too...but I wonder if people would go for it?



I wonder how many people clicked the link?


Isn't that the period with the insanely complicated bureaucracy? That seems pretty terrible from the perspective of a person who rarely plays fighting types anymore.
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby RCS » 27 Mar 2017, 23:32

You have to be careful when you go outside the traditional bounds of setting. Most people here got here because of various Koei games, be it Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Dynasty Warriors or Nobunaga's Ambition. There are plenty of other interesting historical periods to set things in with those nations, but that doesn't mean the playerbase will be knowledgeable about it, or want to play it. Making a Japan game without a cool Nobunaga, ninjas, or Ieyasu's silly helmet might cut out a lot of the things people here would want from a Japan game.


Yeah, that's the major thing holding back a Heian-era Sim. I hate to admit it, but I often felt that Warlords was a more fun sim than SimRTK when I was playing them both (shots fired, shots fired!). But RTK and DW have sold a few more copies than Rise of the Phoenix did and SimRTK always had more players than Warlords did.

At the same time, though, given my own example there...a lot more people have probably heard of Taira no Kiyomori and Minamoto no Yoshitsune than they have of Liu Bang and Xiang Yu.
Now playing a Minamoto no Raikou-centric Japanese Sim, no matter how fun I think that would be, would require a playerbase already established, no argument there.
A sengoku period Sim would be easier to attract players with, but a Heian era sim (or likewise, an Edo period Sim) would be easier to run, systematically.

Although something that always got to me a little was that...we work so hard to pick time periods where people can play along with the greatest NPCs of the era. Then we always wind up trying to mitigate their effect and open appearance. for instance in HoC we decided to go with a time period wherein Nobunaga has just entered the capital region (just post-Okehazma). We all agreed that was a great time to set a Kinai-centric map up to do a smaller-scale Sim to compensate for the smaller userbase. Then we spent a few weeks debating how best to write Nobunaga out of the story because the mods (and several players) all feared everyone would just join Nobunaga's faction and steamroll the rest of the game. :roll:

Xe of Greed wrote:Isn't that the period with the insanely complicated bureaucracy? That seems pretty terrible from the perspective of a person who rarely plays fighting types anymore.


Toyotomi Hideyoshi had to be adopted, at the age of 48, by a member of the Kuge class so that he could legally attain the rank of Kampaku, which was different than Shogun BTW, and that was after adopting his new father's daughter as his own, so that he could marry her to the Emperor and claim to be the Emperor's father-in-law. 1580's.

The Sengoku seems like a less complicated political time because most of the history books deal with the wars that were going on. In reality the Sengoku times' court was the same court that was in place during the Heian times, give or take centralization of power.

Plus I think with the Heian emphasis on politics and small-scale battles over large grandiose 20,000 man armies, it could stand be a more intimate in RP and in-game intrigue (kind of like how the Simzhou pre-game is going along).

All that being said, I agree with the opinion overall. Much as I'd like a Heian-era Sim, a Sengoku sim would be easier to get off the ground. Although a Heian test game would be fun to test out certain mechanics before the full-on Sengoku Sim came rolling out, if the system between the two facets weren't totally different.
And I've got design ideas for all three periods, too: Heian, Sengoku, and Edo.
The Edo could be fun and intimate, too, but falls prey to the same issue as a Heian one.
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby Bradums » 28 Mar 2017, 01:43

RCS wrote:
Xe of Greed wrote:Isn't that the period with the insanely complicated bureaucracy? That seems pretty terrible from the perspective of a person who rarely plays fighting types anymore.


Toyotomi Hideyoshi had to be adopted, at the age of 48, by a member of the Kuge class so that he could legally attain the rank of Kampaku, which was different than Shogun BTW, and that was after adopting his new father's daughter as his own, so that he could marry her to the Emperor and claim to be the Emperor's father-in-law. 1580's.


This made me lol so hard. When I first learned about this, it was like a rabbit hole of weirdness.

You have to admit, the guy was a genius...

But yeah, RCS is right...the Sengoku era wasn't immune to over-complication, especially in the titles and court affairs. I remember a ton of people being confused at people holding title of something like...Hitachi-no-Kami or something, despite being the active ruler of Kai or Mikawa. The no-Kami titles specified provinces, but weren't technically IN those provinces. I still don't fully understand it beyond that. The court system of feudal Japan is confusing as hell and every resource I've found on it isn't super helpful.

I do agree that the Heian/Genpei setting would create a more intimate conflict. Smaller numbers, less participants, no foreign wild cards, etc. I still think that doing a lesser-known period of Japanese history than the Sengoku Era will be an issue to creating player interest, but I do acknowledge the benefits and fun a Heian setting would have.
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby RCS » 28 Mar 2017, 09:37

Bradums wrote:I remember a ton of people being confused at people holding title of something like...Hitachi-no-Kami or something, despite being the active ruler of Kai or Mikawa.


You mean like how Oda Nobunaga declared himself Kazusa no-Kami, even though he was never in the province of Kazusa, himself?
Why not Owari no-Kami, since that was his home province?
Simple - because Kazusa was considered a 'special' province in the court which outranked Owari in nostalgic value.

And y'know, why declared yourself Shogun when you can just be Governor of Kazusa?

Akechi Samanosuke's name was actually Akechi Hidemitsu, but he's known by his court rank of Sama no-Suke, which means something akin to Deputy Commander of the Left Stable (i.e. Left Cavalry Division).

Fun, right? :lol:
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby Xiahou Mao » 28 Mar 2017, 12:54

In fairness, that kind of title shenanigans was prevalent in Europe as well. The "Duke of Burgundy" title, though representing land in France, was claimed by the royalty of Spain and Austria for three hundred years without them actually directly controlling its land, and even today the King of Spain calls himself the Duke of Burgundy as well. And then there was the decision of the Margrave of Brandenburg to declare himself the "King in Prussia" after obtaining lands in Prussia, rather than the "King of Prussia", as there was only one King allowed in the Holy Roman Empire (Bohemia). The slight change of wording allowed the Margrave to hold a kingdom title outside of the Holy Roman Empire while retaining his position as an elector of the Empire itself.
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby RCS » 28 Mar 2017, 15:50

Not to mention homage versus fealty. Like when Richard, Duke of Aquitaine, swore fealty to his father the King of England, but paid homage to the King of France.

Fealty and homage were the same thing...except that one was loyalty of the man swearing the oath and one was loyalty of the man's lands. Richard was a Duke of England, but Aquitaine was 'traditionally' French land.
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby Achira » 29 Mar 2017, 13:04

Are we starting? :D :D :D
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby Xiahou Mao » 29 Mar 2017, 14:48

SimZhou is running with some pre-game tests! Though Sir Ebrum has some things on his plate that are causing a small delay. You can feel free to jump in there. As it looks like you already have started to.
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby Achira » 30 Mar 2017, 05:08

Hope many will return. After so many years, I am still patient :P
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby Sir Ebrum » 01 Apr 2017, 12:59

Xiahou Mao wrote:SimZhou is running with some pre-game tests! Though Sir Ebrum has some things on his plate that are causing a small delay. You can feel free to jump in there. As it looks like you already have started to.


Actually, I'm tired of the Three Kingdoms, and Simzhou. I'm going to abandon this pre-game and devote the time to my new hobby of watching reality TV shows.
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby Xiahou Mao » 01 Apr 2017, 13:16

In the absence of Sir Ebrum, I shall have to step up and take on a huge workload, just like the old days! Are people prepared for an onslaught of Xiahou Mao the likes of which has never been seen before!?
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