Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby Dong He of Jian Ye » 01 Aug 2017, 00:11

RCS wrote: Somehow I have to make the army's troop number, armament level, efficiency level, and one of the commander's stats all get taken into effect in relatively equal parts - two of the commander's stats if I can, but I'll settle for one. And it's just not coming to me in a balanced way.


I realize that this post is nearly two months old but I thought I would try to help. This is how I did it for a WW1 game.
I started with the troop number and multiplied it by an "arbitrary number" (you'll have to figure out what works best for you although its probably best to stay around or below what you expect average troop numbers to be) and then took the square root of that. This gave me my "base" number of soldiers.

The purpose is to create an effect of diminishing returns. Every time a soldier is added to a unit it will do more damage, but going from 20 to 21 will add more damage than going from 120 to 121. It helps keep giant units from smashing smaller ones instantly, and it helps simulate that only so many soldiers can fight at one time. (alternatively you can simply create a hard cap- any soldiers over a certain amount aren't counted when determining how much damage to do).

Test your "arbitrary number" until you get what you want to be the average damage in an equal situation. If both sides have the same units/training/officers/terrain etc. this is proportionally (but not specifically) how much damage they will do.


I then took this "base" number and multiplied it by the "unit power". This varies based on the unit - artillery did more damage than infantry. This number (at least for your situation) will most likely be between zero and one. The "unit power" is the biggest way to effect how long battles last. The higher it is the more casualties are inflicted. I call this "base damage." This is what a unit at a certain size with certain equipment will inflict on an opponent that is in an equal position.


Now to create inequality! First you must decide how much relative influence each other factor will have. In your case you said you wanted everything to be in equal proportions, but I'll show how to do it with unequal proportions because it still demonstrates the method. Lets say there are two factors: "Attacker's officer's stat", and "attacker's training." We want a 2:1 ratio in how much influence the "attacker's officer's stat" has relative to the "attacker's training."
First we must figure out what the average officer stat is for all officers (that will actually be in battle). Lets make it easy and say you expect the average officer (in battle) to have a stat of 50, with a minimum of 0 and a maximum of 100. Now that we have that, we need to know how much of an effect we want that extra (or missing) 50 stat points to provide. Lets say we want an officer of 100 to do 25% more damage than 50, and a 0 stat to do 25% less than 50. In this case, each stat point raises the damage by 0.5%. Multiply the "base damage" with this multiplier (as in, a stat of 100 would be (BaseDamage x 0.5)). It will end up negative if the stat is below 50. Keep this number aside for the moment.

For "attacker's training," lets say that the average is 80 and it goes from 0-100. Since it is half as effective as stat points, 100 will do 12.5% more damage (half of 25%). This means each point increases/decreases damage by 0.625%. Multiply the "base damage" with this multiplier as befor.

Now, take the base damage and add each of the numbers you got from the attacker's officer's stat and the attacker's training. This is your "final damage."

You can add any other modifier in the same way. For instance, an opponent officer's stat could make the damage go up or down.


You will still have to play with the numbers here to get it to work the way you want to. The main ones being the "arbitrary number" at the beginning, the "unit power", and what % you want each factor to change things by.

Tip 1: Get your "arbitrary number" very close to where you think it should be before moving on. Then get your "unit power" very close to where it should be. Then work on both of these until you've got them good. Then move on to the modifiers. The later stats are greatly influenced by the earlier ones, so if they're not correct messing with the modifiers is pointless. Keep in mind what I put in bold when trying to figure out the first two numbers.

Tip 2: The one downside to this method is if you have to many modifiers or your average stat is too far from your minimum stat you can potentially have a unit do zero damage. If you have ten modifiers that all do -10%, or one modifier that does -100%, then that unit now does nothing. This can be remedied by either reducing the number of modifiers, reducing the influence of the modifiers, or creating a damage floor. If you're creating a damage floor I would recommend some % of the "base damage" like 25-33%. Similarly, ten modifiers doing +20% damage means a unit will be doing triple damage. That's probably a bit much, and can be remedied in a similar way: less modifiers, less influential modifiers, and a damage cap.


Wow I wasn't expecting that to be so long. If anyone has any questions/comments or thinks I have no idea what I'm talking I would actually love to hear it.
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby RCS » 01 Aug 2017, 18:03

Aah! Thanks for all that. Unfortunately the plans took a bit of a backburner when the game company I was freelancing for last year came to me and said, "That demo you wrote for us last year? We want to expand it to a full game now, how fast can you outline and then subsequently write the whole rest of the game?"
So....chapter 2 is done. :lol:

Dong He of Jian Ye wrote:Tip 2: The one downside to this method is if you have to many modifiers or your average stat is too far from your minimum stat you can potentially have a unit do zero damage. If you have ten modifiers that all do -10%, or one modifier that does -100%, then that unit now does nothing. This can be remedied by either reducing the number of modifiers, reducing the influence of the modifiers, or creating a damage floor. If you're creating a damage floor I would recommend some % of the "base damage" like 25-33%. Similarly, ten modifiers doing +20% damage means a unit will be doing triple damage. That's probably a bit much, and can be remedied in a similar way: less modifiers, less influential modifiers, and a damage cap.


Yeah, that was exactly my problem. If someone had too great an advantage of either troops or officer's stats, the formula I was trying to use was actually healing their wounded. :oops:
I think I've actually goth battle formulas working now (although they'll need stress-tested in a mock game, or even a real game) and moving onto the Duel formulas.
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby Smith » 16 Aug 2017, 21:56

Good lord, movement.

/squees
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby kingpin » 18 Aug 2017, 20:52

I just went on the IRC channel, and found it empty. Maybe it is an opportunity for an admin to create a chat channel like discord or some such.
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby Xiahou Mao » 19 Aug 2017, 13:17

It should never be truly empty, since I'm always there... if you didn't see me, then you didn't get the right channel?
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby Selway » 22 Aug 2017, 00:18

So what comes first, the next total eclipse of the sun or the next version of the sim? :smy:
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby meatwad819 » 16 Sep 2017, 02:14

So what's the most important place to think of this? Only reason I ask is due to the fact that all those interested in it will come here and see the last interesting place to contact it was weeks ago.
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby WesternConqueror » 16 Sep 2017, 03:18

meatwad819 wrote:So what's the most important place to think of this? Only reason I ask is due to the fact that all those interested in it will come here and see the last interesting place to contact it was weeks ago.

Ah not really. Some of those interested are right now playing the pre-game. Where the last post is NOT weeks ago. Head over to read for yourself! :D
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby Xiahou Mao » 16 Sep 2017, 15:29

Yep, things are happening over here!

viewforum.php?f=289
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby LukeYB » 17 Sep 2017, 15:28

Are there other things happening too, XM? Reluctantly accepted when the Pre-game started that it could take all the calender year and though my involvement has lessened, it has been a fun and successful scenario but now it would be great to know something is finally on the horizon - right now Sir Ebrum is spinning a lot of plates and doing a great job but, once again, it -seems- to largely be a lone effort.
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby WesternConqueror » 17 Sep 2017, 15:42

LukeYB wrote:Are there other things happening too, XM? Reluctantly accepted when the Pre-game started that it could take all the calender year and though my involvement has lessened, it has been a fun and successful scenario but now it would be great to know something is finally on the horizon - right now Sir Ebrum is spinning a lot of plates and doing a great job but, once again, it -seems- to largely be a lone effort.

I am looking forward to the actual game as well Xiaohou Mao. :)
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Re: Out Of Character (OOC) Thread

Postby Diethe » 04 Nov 2017, 02:35

Yeah, heck old school rules, none of that high tech stuff would do for me.
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