KT ideas thread

Re: KT ideas thread

Postby Xu Yuan » 01 Jun 2017, 23:12

Thanks for the look-over ShadInquis. I will fix that up right away.

EDIT: Alright, that's been edited with Mat's permission. So 150 troops in total. Also that is great advice in regards to the staffing procedures and very important to keep in mind moving forward, thanks for the heads up.
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Re: KT ideas thread

Postby Chen Ping » 02 Jun 2017, 01:57

Can my character join the I-net party? I assume we can assign as many spare officers as we want to it (dilutes contribution but whatever), and I prefer to get some free XP, as might others.
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Re: KT ideas thread

Postby Xu Yuan » 02 Jun 2017, 02:02

I would love to give as many people I-Net positions, but unfortunately that requires a person to hold either a Civil or Military Rank (+20 Salary) with funds being as they are we can't afford at the moment. As it stands at the end of this KT we have only 81 Gold, which we should be careful with, not knowing what will happen before we're enumerated.
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Re: KT ideas thread

Postby Chen Ping » 02 Jun 2017, 02:59

Ah, thanks for the explanation.
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Re: KT ideas thread

Postby Mat » 02 Jun 2017, 10:19

I would have liked to send several officers on patrol as well, but we're just really strapped for cash this first KT. Hopefully we're in a better position next time. Although we may have to wait until the third KT to hit our stride, since we won't be able to spend the gains our new buildings provide until the Sept KT.
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Re: KT ideas thread

Postby ShadInquis » 02 Jun 2017, 12:30

I guess we will find out soon enough when KT results are done (could someone PM Ebrum with link to the final KT?), but I will safely say we will likely be strapped for cash next KT as well.

Next turn we will need to spend trying to get our military up. Meaning that as long as we have cash we need to:
    1. Draft max troops (around 110 troops depending on who we get to do it), so that's around 1000 gold
    2. We want to outfit as many of our troops as possible. Earlier on we calculated that bows and heavy arms are around 13 gold apiece with our good crafters and we need round 200 in total. So that's another 2600 gold, if we can.
    3. Then we have some constructions to keep up economy (Economic Office and Bureau of Investigation as a minimum, maybe something like Stone Granaries too)

The list of things to spend money on is huge.
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Re: KT ideas thread

Postby Silverwarp » 03 Jun 2017, 07:03

Mat wrote:I went over all of the PT results and noted the way some events have changed the city stats. I also factored-in the first crisis skirmishes. Not sure if Grand Administrator changes the Max Units to 1300 or not. That might just be city-dependent.


City dependent. There are buildings that raise the cap.

Xu Yuan wrote:Alright here's the 2nd Draft of the KT. Mat and I tried to take as many suggestions as we could and implement them. Please let us know if you see anything out of order or if there are any further suggestions to make.


Here is a KT I prepared in the last game if that helps you see how to do it.

This was Aureal's answer about whether or not we can use a building the same turn it was built, so we can use the buildings right away. Also, I'm not sure why we're building an Agricultural Office when we should be building an Economic Office, since we're hurting for gold. The harvest won't happen until Autumn, so add in the fact that we can use a building the same turn it is built, we can build the economic office the next turn in anticipation of the harvest.
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Re: KT ideas thread

Postby ShadInquis » 11 Jun 2017, 10:35

So, we got turn results:

The good news is we got lots of gold (13397) for the turn.
The bad news is that we lose another 11 troops, this time to a riot, which also damaged our Civil Office

So, quickly looking at our priorities for next KT:
    1. around 1800 gold for salaries
    2. 1000 gold and food for drafting (there is no question we need to draft max amount)
    3. I would also say it automatic we need to outfit the bulk of our army (bows/heavy arms), so 2000-3000 gold on that (let's say 2600 for easy maths).
    4. That leaves us with around 8000 gold on constructions, which is very nice. The obvious things are Agricultural Office and Bureau of Investigation for 6 more staff slots for 1750 gold + a certain amount on repairing the civil office (possibly just 75). I would also suggest Stone Granaries (500 gold) for being only 500 gold cost and protect our food. Iron Mines (1250 gold) also provide 3 staff slots in addition to military production bonuses.
    5. At this point we surprisingly still have nearly 4500 gold to play with. I can't remember if building effects are immediate, because if they are, we could build Bowyer + Armory and reduce the cost of arms in step 3 by a noticeable amount. Add in any other building and filled out our 10 starting slots.
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Re: KT ideas thread

Postby Han1977 » 13 Jun 2017, 12:17

Just a suggestion. Since we have plenty of officers, why don't we focus on plotting during KT to weaken our enemy?

Arson & Riot, maybe even sap & recruit agent, it could be a card ready to be used when the chance shows.
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Re: KT ideas thread

Postby Silverwarp » 18 Jun 2017, 23:29

So, in prepping for the next KT, I was mentioning that we should see who the active officers are. I'm going to go by PT activity. So, I think we should reward officers with a grade 1 rank if they're diligent in at posting their PT (and hopefully updating their officer profiles). Mats can distribute 6 Civ2 and Mil2 ranks as a Grand Administrator, but I think he should decide how best to this, whether it would be mechanical or RP.

Office Count: 60 (Chen Tao was the last officer added in the KT) + 4 (after KT was posted)
Active Officers (based on PT posts on Late March or 2 of the past 3):
Bo Lai
Cai Bin
Chen Ping
Dai Ren
Dao Lang
Fu Zhi
Gongsun Ji
Huang Dong
Jiang Meixiu
Jiang Yan
Ju-long Bai
Kung Huang
Li Jun
Li Sheng
Liao Ju
Liu Shentong
Qi Jiguang
Su Yu
Xu Bao
Zhang Long
Ma Zeng (no PT in late March)
Pan Shaozu (no PT in late March)

Gold: 13,397
Active Officers to Promote (to be updated):
Bo Lai (Civ 1)
Chen Ping (Civ 1 or Mil 1)
Fu Zhi (Mil 1)
Huang Dong (Mil 1)
Ju-Long Bai (Mil 1)
Kung Huang (Civ 1)
Li Jun (Mil 1)
Liao Ju (Mil 1)
Qi Jiguang (Mil 1)
Xu Bao (Mil 1)
Zhang Long (Mil 1)
Ma Zeng (?) (Mil 1)
Pan Shaozu (?) (Mil 1)

Previous Salary Tally: 1,600
Promotions Above: 260
New Officers: 80
Total: 1,940

Civil Office Repair by Civil Engineer: 1,250 x 25% = 313

Best Officers by Roles:
Drafting:
Jia Liang (80 Cha, Aministration(e)) - 120
Bo Liao (85 Cha, Administration) - 115
Su Yu (75 Cha, Administration(e)) - 115
Sun Xiang (70 Cha, Administration) - 100
Lu Liang (95 War) - 95 (unpromoted)
Liang Zuwen (95 War) - 95 (new officer)
Sun Xiang is probably the best drafter, since Jia Liang, Bo Liao, and Su Yu are needed for Civil duties.

Office of Economic Development:
Sun Ru (90 Pol, Acumen, Commercialist, Propaganda) - 110
Bai Zheng (90 Pol, Acumen, Commercialist) - 110
Wai Be (88 Pol Acumen, Commericalist) - 108
Bo Liao (90 Pol, Commercialist) - 105
Dao Lang (96 Pol, Acumen) - 101
Zhang Anguo (85 Pol, Commericalist, Propaganda) - 100

Office of Agricultural Development
Dao Lang (96 Pol, Acumen, Farmer) - 116
Bai Zheng (90 Pol, Acumen, Farmer) - 110
Zhang Anguo (85 Pol, Farmer, Propaganda) - 100
Sun Ru (90 Pol, Acumen, Propaganda) - 95
Cai Bin (95 Pol, Propaganda) - 95

Lower Courts/Civil Office/Central Courts
Dao Lang (96 Pol, Acumen, Farmer) - 116
Sun Ru (90 Pol, Acumen, Commercialist, Propaganda) - 110
Bai Zheng (90 Pol, Acumen, Commercialist) - 110
Wai Be (88 Pol Acumen, Commericalist) - 108
Bo Liao (90 Pol, Commercialist) - 105
Zhang Anguo (85 Pol, Commericalist, Propaganda) - 100
Cai Bin (95 Pol, Propaganda) - 95
Jia Liang (90 Pol, Propaganda) - 90
Kung Huang (90 Pol) - 90
Sima Dan (78 Pol) - 78 (unpromoted)
Su Yu (76 Pol) - 76
Zhou Liang (71 Pol, Acumen) - 76 (unpromoted)
Xin (70 Pol, Acumen) - 75 (new officer)
An Shigao (75 Pol) - 75 (unpromoted)
Sun Xiang (74 Pol) - 74
Shi Jie (72 Pol, Propaganda) -72 (unpromoted)
Xi Jian (72 Pol) - 72 (unpromoted)

Commandary Buildings: (Note: Officers with only Military Rank can only staff the Bureau of Investigation, buildings with a prerequisite will require a civil rank)
Bo Lai (89 War, Investigator) - 104 (unpromoted)
Lu Liang (95 War) - 95 (unpromoted) (Military type)
Liang Zuwen (95 War) - 95 (new officer) (Military Type)
Li Sheng (92 War) - 92
Liu Shentong (91 War) - 91
Deng Jing (90 War) - 90 (unpromoted)
Yuan Zhong (90 War) - 90 (unpromoted) (Military Type)
Shou Shen (90 War) - 90 (unpromoted)
Lu Tai (90 War) - 90 (unpromoted) (Military Type)
Lu You (90 War) - 90 (unpromoted) (Military Type)
Xu Bao (86 War) - 86 (Military Type)
Ky Rah (86 War) - 86
Jin Zhi (85 War) - 85 (unpromoted)

Garrison buildings (Note: Officers with only Military Rank can only staff the Barracks, buildings with a prerequisite will require a civil rank)
Bo Lai (89 War, Investigator) - 104 (unpromoted)
Lu Liang (95 War) - 95 (unpromoted) (Military type)
Liang Zuwen (95 War) - 95 (new officer) (Military Type)
Li Sheng (92 War) - 92
Liu Shentong (91 War) - 91
Deng Jing (90 War) - 90 (unpromoted)
Yuan Zhong (90 War) - 90 (unpromoted) (Military Type)
Shou Shen (90 War) - 90 (unpromoted)
Fei Lai (90 Lead) - 90 (Military type)
Jiang Yan (90 Lead) - 90 (Military type)
Jian Bian (90 Lead) - 90 (unpromoted) (Military type)
Wang Le (90 Lead) - 90 (unpromoted) (Military type)
Lu Tai (90 War) - 90 (unpromoted) (Military Type)
Lu You (90 War) - 90 (unpromoted) (Military Type)
Zhang Long (90 Lead) - 90 (unpromoted) (Military type)
Dai Ren (87 Lead) - 87 (Military type)
Ju-Long Bai (87 Lead) - 87 (Military type)
Liao Ju (87 Lead) - 87 (Military type)
Xu Bao (86 War) - 86 (Military Type)
Ky Rah (86 War) - 86
Jin Zhi (85 War) - 85 (unpromoted)

Production Buildings
Jia Lu (94 Int) - 94
Qiyang Feng (91 Int) - 91
Sima Dan (90 Int) - 90 (unpromoted)
Huyan Li (90 Int) - 90 (new officer)
Ju-Long (90 Int) - 90
Xi Jian (90 Int) - 90 (unpromoted)
Shenmi Xiang (90 Int) - 90
Wu Ye (86 Int) - 86 (unpromoted)
Fu Zhi (81 Int) - 81
Dai Ren, Dao Lang, Deng Jing (unpromoted), Hua Zhi (unpromoted), Li Sheng, Pan Shaozu (unpromoted), Song Feishu (unpromoted), Sun Xiang, Xu Bao (80 Int) - 80

Civil Engineers:
Jia Liang
Su Yu
Shenmi Xiang
Xin (new officer)

Produce:
Heavy Arms/Bows (-2 to Cost if a Bowyer/Armory is built)
Shenmi Xiang (90 Int, Invent, Craftsman): 13 gold per Bow or Arm, 100 Capacity
Wu Ye (86 Int, Invent, Craftsman(e)): 13 gold per Bow or Arm, 106 Capacity (-1 Gold for Heavy Arms if Iron Ore Mines are built)
Shou Shen (70 Int, Invent, Craftsman(e)): 14 gold per Bow or Arm, 90 Capacity
Xu Bao (80 Int, Craftsman(e)): 14 gold per Bow or Arm, 100 Capacity
All Officers 90 Int or higher: 14 Gold per Bow or Arm, Capacity based on Int

Horses (-2 to Cost if a Stable is built)
All Officers 90 Int or higher: 21 Gold per horse, Capacity based on Int
All Officers 80 Int to 89 Int: 22 Gold per horse, Capacity based on Int

Arbalest
Shenmi Xiang (90 Int, Invent, Craftsman): 26 gold per Arbalest, 50 Capacity
Wu Ye (86 Int, Invent, Craftsman(e)): 26 gold per Arbalest, 53 Capacity
Shou Shen (70 Int, Invent, Craftsman(e)): 28 gold per Arbalest, 45 Capacity
Xu Bao (80 Int, Craftsman(e)): 27 gold per Arbalest, 50 Capacity
All Officers 90 Int or higher: 28 Gold per Arbalest, Capacity based on Int/2

Training:
Jiang Yan (90 Lead, 81 War, Leader(e)) - 211
Zhang Long (90 Lead, 80 War, Leader(e)) - 210 (unpromoted)
Ju-Long Bai (87 Lead, 80 War, Leader(e)) - 207
Fei Lai (90 Lead, 84 War, Leader) - 204
Lu Tai (80 Lead, 90 War, Leader) - 200 (unpromoted)
Yuan Zhong (80 Lead, 90 War, Leader) - 200 (unpromoted)
Dai Ren (87 Lead, 71 War, Leader(e)) - 198
Liao Ju (87 Lead, 71 War, Leader) - 188

I-net
Ju-Long (90 Int, Spy(e)) - 115
An Shigao (75 Int, Spy) - 100
Li Sheng (80 Int, Spy) - 105
Song Feishu (80 Int, Spy) - 105
Sun Xiang (80 Int, Spy) - 105
Jia Lu (94 Int) - 94
Qiyang Feng (91 Int) - 91
Sima Dan (90 Int) - 90 (unpromoted)
Huyan Li (90 Int) - 90 (new officer)
Xi Jian (90 Int) - 90 (unpromoted)
Shenmi Xiang (90 Int) - 90
Wu Ye (86 Int) - 86 (unpromoted)
Fu Zhi (81 Int) - 81
Dai Ren, Dao Lang, Deng Jing (unpromoted), Hua Zhi (unpromoted), Pan Shaozu (unpromoted), Xu Bao (80 Int) - 80

Current Gold Estimates (13,397 Gold Start):
Officer Salaries: 1,940 - 2,100 gold
Civil Office Repair: 313 gold
Draft: 900 Gold, 1000 Food (100 troops)
Build: Lower Courts, Central Courts or Agricultural Office, Barracks or Bureau of Investigation - 1800 - 3450 Gol
Produce: 206 Bows/Heavy Arms (or 100 Bows & 106 Heavy Arms or 100 heavy Arms & 106 Bows) at 13 gold each with Shenmi Xiang and Wu Ye - 2678 Gold (this should be more than enough, since this basically arms all of the army with either bows or heavy arms)
Total: 7,791 - 9,441 Gold used
Remaining: 5,606 - 3,956 Remaining

The debate is going to be about what to construct. I think we should build towards the Central Courts. Based on Aureal's answer here, the agricultural office seems to be only useful for harvest season. The gains for harvest don't apply to any other season, so it might be more efficient to build more civic offices that provides tax and harvest and then buy food if we need it, since we're flush with gold. The barracks vs. bureau of investigation is a matter of how much PS can we increase. I suspect the riot is likely from the lack of PS from buildings.
Last edited by Silverwarp on 19 Jun 2017, 04:38, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: KT ideas thread

Postby ShadInquis » 19 Jun 2017, 00:01

a. Why barracks vs. bureau of investigation? We have enough money to build both. And probably should since both are opening up building trees.
b. Central Courts: this is a 3 turn investment (or 2 turn with the skill). I can see it being useful if we eventually want Law & Order government, but we might be at war by that stage.
c. We really should consider building Bureau of the Constabulary. It's only 750 gold, we can build it in 1 turn with skill (just how we did the Civil office in the Spring KT), and it really buffs PS, and gives other benefits.
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Re: KT ideas thread

Postby Xu Yuan » 19 Jun 2017, 01:58

I agree with the idea to set up the Central Courts. The investment in the Civil Offices paid out with dividends, great thinking there Silverwarp. I think switching to Law and Order is probably the best way to approach the situation, it helps us with a Harvest season in the future and opens the way towards our desired Government Type, not to mention it makes perfect sense IC.
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Re: KT ideas thread

Postby Silverwarp » 19 Jun 2017, 03:16

ShadInquis wrote:a. Why barracks vs. bureau of investigation? We have enough money to build both. And probably should since both are opening up building trees.
b. Central Courts: this is a 3 turn investment (or 2 turn with the skill). I can see it being useful if we eventually want Law & Order government, but we might be at war by that stage.
c. We really should consider building Bureau of the Constabulary. It's only 750 gold, we can build it in 1 turn with skill (just how we did the Civil office in the Spring KT), and it really buffs PS, and gives other benefits.


a) I think it's space that's the concern. We only have 10 slots unless we search for more, so we should try to make the best use of the slots we have. Right now we have Economic Office, Smithy, Civil Office. If we're building Lower Court and Central Courts, that leaves 5 slots.
b) Once we build the Central Courts, I don't think we have to worry about the economy ever again. I do think we should be switching to Law and Order government, since that seems to be the best form of government IMO. We can only switch governments in the Winter KT, so it would be good to build it now. Besides, who knows when we'll be at war.
c) I'm not against it, but it depends on how far we want to go down the garrison and commandary tree with the slots we have remaining. We can do Barrack, Garrison, Enlistment Center, Recruitment Center, and Martial Academy to completely go down the garrison tree (that gives PS and pop with military benefits) or we can go down the commandary and garrison tree and that will bring in more gold with PS and Pop increase. So, we'd build a bureau of investigation, a bureau of constabulary, barracks and a choice of enlistment and recruitment center, or garrison and martial academy. I think it would good RP wise if we build the bureau of investigation and constabulary.

Also, I've reconsider the agricultural office and perhaps we can build it this turn and demolish it when we need the space. We have no idea how much food we'll get from harvest, so it could be prudent to build one.

EDIT: I also realized we didn't get the results of recruit agents. Sir Ebrum?
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Re: KT ideas thread

Postby ShadInquis » 19 Jun 2017, 07:32

To be honest, I don't see much point going too far down the garrison tree. I mean what are we getting: +1 training per turn for those inexperienced? We have so much training capacity from our officers it barely registers. Enlistment Center: nice buff which stacks with Iron Fist, but our limiting factor would be food either way. In the end it will save us what 200 gold/food at most? Martial academy is the only one we really need, and it has no prerequisites at all.

We would be better off just building the Martial Academy and building something else with other slots.
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Re: KT ideas thread

Postby Silverwarp » 20 Jun 2017, 03:04

ShadInquis wrote:To be honest, I don't see much point going too far down the garrison tree. I mean what are we getting: +1 training per turn for those inexperienced? We have so much training capacity from our officers it barely registers. Enlistment Center: nice buff which stacks with Iron Fist, but our limiting factor would be food either way. In the end it will save us what 200 gold/food at most? Martial academy is the only one we really need, and it has no prerequisites at all.

We would be better off just building the Martial Academy and building something else with other slots.


I think the Recruitment Center is worth it. All drafted troops start with 10 training will really help with training all troops to 100.

Based on my calculations, the best trainers we have can only max 20-21 troops to 100 training in 1 turn before the Recruitment Center. With the recruitment center, we can max 22-23 troops to 100 training in 1 turn. We're drafting at least 100 troops a turn, so we should build buildings that will help us keep pace with the training. At the most optimal (with Recruitment Center, Martial Academy, and the top four trainers), we can max 92 troops to 100 training a turn. The fact that we get so much gold a turn really helps alleviate the immediate need for good, but I agree with you that food will probably be a limiting factor and that we'll need to see how much we get during harvest.
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