Tactics Discussion

For the tactical-minded.

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Tactics Discussion

Postby Aureal » 15 Oct 2012, 12:39

Discuss tactics here!
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Re: Tactics Discussion

Postby Calistoknight » 01 Nov 2012, 21:07

I'll do the mighty Wu Anguo's tactics!

Obviously the decison that he is the vanguard was decided via RP storyline. Being the manly man he is, the plan is to go boldy forward (while staying within range of allied units for support of course!) and challenge the enemies champion to a duel. And because Wu Anguo is nothing less than a god, he will win! That's the plan with him.

(Obviously in an ooc sense this is a terrible idea as Wu Anguo's stats arn't great, has no skills, and only 70 infantry vs Hua Xiong who will probably be Dong Zhou's champ who is much more powerful in terms of skills, stats, and troops. But for the sake of RP this is going down anyways)




For reference: Battle Draft Rules

The Lineup

Dong Zhou
----------

Hua Xiong | 77-95-45-42-49 | Aid, Duelist (e), Jeer, Trample, Siegecraft|
100 (100) Heavy Infantry

Xu Rong | 84-72-64-54-55 | Administration, Ambush, Arrowstorm, Dash, Leader, Networking
80 (100) Heavy Infantry

Li Jue | 70-63-57-29-32 | Aid, Charge, Dash, Investigator, Leader, Raid, Spy
70 (90) Infantry

Li Ru | 52-18-92-74-38 |Acumen, Aid, Alchemist, Ambush, Arrowstorm, Arson, Cunning, Jeer, Propaganda, Rumour, Tactician
50 (90) Heavy Infantry

Guo Si | 74-70-56-48-46 | Aid, Dash, Duelist, Formation, Riot, Siegecraft, Volley
100 (100) Arbalests


The Coalition
--------------

Wu Anguo | 52-75-34-31-38 | Duelist |
70 (70) Infantry

Xiahou Yuan | 95-92-68-62-76 | Administration, Ambush, Aid, Charge, Duelist, Investigator (e), Leader, Logistics, Missile, Scout, Siegecraft, Terrain
70 (90) Horse Archers

Cao Ren | 94-83-66-59-67 | Aid, Arrowstorm, Charge (e), Duelist, Inspire, Leader, Raid, Rally, Valor, Wall (e)
70 (90) Infantry

Cao Cao | 99-59-101-98-97 | Acumen, Administration (e), Ambush, Articulate, Civil Engineer, Cunning (e), Dash (e), Farmer, Leader, Military Engineer, Networking (e), Propaganda, Siegecraft (e), Wile
100 (100) Infantry

Xiahou Dun | 88-97-58-84-82 | Acumen, Administration (e), Ambush, Articulate, Civil Engineer, Cunning (e), Dash (e), Farmer, Leader, Military Engineer, Networking (e), Propaganda, Siegecraft (e), Wile
70 (90) Heavy Infantry

Yuan Shu | 71-58-60-53-67 | Administration, Aid, Arson, Charge, Jeer, Logistics, Networking, Siegecraft
100 (100) Transports

Huang Zhong | 98-99-71-53-72 | Arrowstorm, Blitz, Charge, Duelist, Leader (e), Loyalty, Missile (e), Raid, Valour (e), Volley, Weaponmaster (e)
50 (100) Archers

Hua Xin | 37-54-65-90-71 | Acumen, Administration, Civil Engineer, Farmer, Networking, Propaganda, Rumor, Riot, Wile
100 (60) Infantry

Chen Deng | 71-31-87-80-85 | Acumen, Administration, Charming, Farmer, Leader, Raid, Riot (e), Rumour (e), Tactician, Wile
100 (47) Infantry

Zhang He | 91-90-75-62-91 | Aid, Ambush, Blitz (e), Charge, Dash, Duelist, Investigator, Jeer, Leader, Loyalty, Raid, Rally, Scout, Terrain, Valour
95 (100) Horse Archers

Wen Chou | 74-93-19-23-56 | Charge, Duelist, Jeer, Valor
95 (100) Cavalry

Yan Liang | 72-94-29-25-47 | Aid, Charge, Duelist, Leader, Valor
95 (100) Heavy Infantry

Yuan "The Boss" Shao | 83-68-77-84-90 | Administration, Aid, Charge, Charming, Dash, Inspire, Investigator, Jeer, Leader, Networking, Rally, Siegecraft, Wile
120 (80) Heavy Infantry

Gongsun Yue | 50-40-53-44-60 | Aid, Charge, Charming
50 (35) Infantry

Gongsun "Horse Lover" Zan | 89-81-53-48-73 | Aid, Breeder, Charge, Charming, Civil Engineer (e), Dash, Investigator, Fusillade, Raid, Rumor, Siegecraft, Trample
100 (100) Cavalry
Pre-Game:
Xu Bao (42)
Stats: 66-87-80-40-63
Skills: Arson, Artisan, Craftsman (e), Logistics, Military Engineer, Weaponmaster
Items: None
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Re: Tactics Discussion

Postby Strategist » 01 Nov 2012, 22:20

Only a few preliminary ideas so far, but (Han Sui ideas in more detail coming later. Kind of biased about Ma Teng's side, so not sending tactics there):

Zhang Song: Has inferior officers, but may be able to pull off a ploy or two. If Gan Ning attacks, should fall back behind his walls and pummel the enemy with arrows and ploys. If he doesn't, should build up his forces and wait for an opportunity unless Gan Ning attacks Zhu Ti (in which he has little choice but to contest him), or another city (in which case he should make a desperate dash for Jiang Zhou).

Gan Ning: Should attack and secure Zhu Ti to gain an economic advantage over Zhang Song.

Sima Fang: Not sure about this, but should perhaps attack He Dong depending on his forces. Sima Fang was meant to have a sense of public duty, and taking He Dong would also increase his short-term power. If not that, then perhaps Jin Yang for similiar long-term reasons.

Dong Zhuo: If I were Li Ru or Jia Xu, I'd want to fall back behind Hu Lao Gate, pummel the enemy with arrows and ploys, and attempt to split the Coalition diplomatically. However, if I were Lu Bu or Hua Xiong I'd want to launch an all-out charge to rout the Coalition, naturally accepting any duels that come. Dong Zhuo should probably side with Li Ru/Jia Xu but order his warriors to accept any challenges that come their way.

Should try and get other forces, such as Liu Biao and Fa Zheng, to attack Coalition powers while they're gone. With Liu Biao this can't work, but Dong Zhuo doesn't know that.

Coalition: Total confidence in Wu Anguo as vanguard. There is no need to give Dong Zhuo the advantage by attacking Hu Lao Gate head on, so should go northwest and attempt to attack Luo Yang or He Dong via the sea. The Coalition is lacking in naval officers, but so is Dong Zhuo. Keep token archer forces to defend Dong Jun and Chen Liu. (Dong Zhuo splitting his forces will give a relatively better chance at Luo Yang)

If Cao Cao objects, promise him compensation from Luo Yang's treasury for losses incurred at Dong Jun and Chen Liu. If he loses both, should give him Luo Yang temporarily in response until they are retaken (without control of the Emperor, naturally).

Yellow Turbans: Should launch attacks on nearby free cities/towns to try and re-establish themselves. They may be bandits, but they have units strong enough to stand a chance and potential plunder to take.

Han Sui/Ma Teng: Should definitely try to get Fa Zheng on side. Besides that, not sure yet.
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Re: Tactics Discussion

Postby Marzy » 02 Nov 2012, 01:12

Strategist wrote:Zhang Song: Has inferior officers, but may be able to pull off a ploy or two. If Gan Ning attacks, should fall back behind his walls and pummel the enemy with arrows and ploys. If he doesn't, should build up his forces and wait for an opportunity unless Gan Ning attacks Zhu Ti (in which he has little choice but to contest him), or another city (in which case he should make a desperate dash for Jiang Zhou).

lolwat? Cite your sources sir! I don't recall anything about who Zhang Song has employed (or actually, anything about Zhang Song at all) being made public information.
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Re: Tactics Discussion

Postby Strategist » 02 Nov 2012, 01:24

Marzy wrote:
Strategist wrote:Zhang Song: Has inferior officers, but may be able to pull off a ploy or two. If Gan Ning attacks, should fall back behind his walls and pummel the enemy with arrows and ploys. If he doesn't, should build up his forces and wait for an opportunity unless Gan Ning attacks Zhu Ti (in which he has little choice but to contest him), or another city (in which case he should make a desperate dash for Jiang Zhou).

lolwat? Cite your sources sir! I don't recall anything about who Zhang Song has employed (or actually, anything about Zhang Song at all) being made public information.


I'm guessing to an extent- but Zhang Song is inferior to Gan Ning as an officer. Gan Ning has had two PCs in the SimRTK game, Zhang Song has none.
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Re: Tactics Discussion

Postby edwchong » 02 Nov 2012, 14:47

Before I start discussing, are the morale of the individual armies in coalition force separate from each other?

Given the current set up of generals, the odds are stacked against Dong Zhuo at Hu Lao Gate.

From my experience, there are 2 ways to approach this - ploys and morale rout.

We definitely have to position all of Dong Zhuo (DZ) troops behind Hu Lao Gate.

1) Jeer to morale rout
Postion Li Ru on the wall, Use Jeer on single unit army in the Coalition Forces (CF), ie Wu Anguo, Yuan Shu, Huang Zhong, Hua Xin, Chen Deng, who are within range. There are no one in the CF that has Rally(e) so they cant increase the morale of these indvidual units. Once the morale of any of these units hit 0, they will withdraw from the battlefield and the morale of every force in the CF will be hit for every unit that leaves the battle field.

2) Ploy (is to supplement the morale rout startegy)
Send a ploy to bribe Wu Anguo (lousiest stats of all mentioned above) to defect to DZ's side using gold and high rank in DZ's administraion. If Wu Anguo agrees to defect, he is to move his unit closer to Yuan Shu's unit before offically defecting. Then he is to attack Yuan Shu or duel Yuan Shu. Once Wu Anguo defects, morale for all CF forces will get hit, destroying Yuan Shu's unit will further decrease morale of CF forces.
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Re: Tactics Discussion

Postby Dong Zhou » 02 Nov 2012, 17:24

Well I'm probably offline on Monday and maybe for a few days after so will try to get some sort of proposed tactics for Pang De's side for the Han Sui officer core to fix and then post. First part of post general Pang De stuff, second half my initial tactics proposal.

Aureal, do I need to transfer food at start of battle or can Xie Zhang's unit have some from the start?

Original plan had been for Xie Zhang, for rp reasons, to send letter to Ma Chao and attempt a duel so going to keep that part in.

Han Sui's side have 120 (0) Cavalry, 500 gold, 12,000 food.

Officers: Pang De | 83-95-69-41-40 | Ambush, Blitz, Charge, Cunning, Duelist, Inspire, Stealth, Trample, Valor

Xie Zhang | 81-96-50-10-36 | Duelist(e), Inspire, Leader Weaponmaster

97 TP, 7 Morale

Ma Chao 82Lea 95War 45Int 41Pol 81Cha Aid, Arrowstorm, Charge, Duelist (e), Jeer, Leader, Raid, Siegecraft, Trample (e), Valor

Ma Chao has less int which might help, less troops but the training gap makes up for it, more TP, far less supplies and less morale. IC I have promised a duel and if Zhang loses, the morale gap should close quickly.

My current thoughts are to give Xie Zhang some men and send him out to duel Ma Chao. When that is done... well have a look. :wink: Or don't.


----


Name: Pang De
Stats: 78-91-69-41-40
Items: 5-4-0-0-0 {Warhorse (Lead +5), Steel Helm (War +3), Level 1 Weapon (War +1)}
Skills: Ambush, Blitz, Charge, Cunning, Duelist, Inspire, Stealth, Trample, Valor
Rank: Military Officer 2 (Unit Limit +20, +20 TP)
Unit: 100 (0) Cavalry, 500 gold, 10,000 food
Food: 10000
Gold: 500
Attachment: None
Morale: 7
TP: 97
Status:

=
Name: Xie Zhang
Stats: 81-96-50-10-36
Items: 0-0-0-0-0
Skills: Duelist(e), Inspire, Leader Weaponmaster
Rank: None
Unit: 20 (0) Cavalry
Food: 2000
Gold: 0
Attachment: None
Morale: ?
TP: ?



Pang De
Duels: Avoid duels if possible.
Notes: Until set up in ambush, will move after Xie Zhang
Movement: Moves to hill hex X24 Y106, using Elude if necessary, and sets up ambush. Once ambush is done/exposed, move to positions to attack Ma Chao but only leave hills if have to do so to avoid fire or if Ma Chao moves away, or deliberately stays away, from the attack range from hills.
Attack:
1) On arriving at X24 Y106 hill hex, set up ambush. Launch it as soon as Ma Chao comes within range.
2) Once ambush and the resulting attack is done, use Inspire if Pang De has enough TP.
3) When ambush is done/failed and inspire has been used, use Charge when possible.
4) When charge is not possible, use Flank. If that isn't possible either, use normal melee attack.


Xie Zhang | 81-96-50-10-36 | Duelist(e), Inspire, Leader Weaponmaster
20 (0) Cavalry, 2,000 food

Xie Zhang
Duels: None after initial duel
Notes: None
Movement: Head straight for Ma Chao till in range for duel. After duel, or duel is refused, head for hill hex X23 Y106, using Dash on the first turn of moving towards the hill. Will avoid combat at best as possible while heading on route till ambush is unleashed/exposed. Once Pang De has been exposed/ambushed Ma Chao, will manoeuvre to be able to Flank Ma Chao when possible and within that, keep using hill advantage when possible.
Attack:
1) As soon as within range, challenges Ma Chao to duel.
2) After duel/being refused, use Inspire. Use Inspire again on first turn it expires after ambush has been used/exposed.
3) Used Flank whenever possible, otherwise use normal melee attack.
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Li Jun (160) 93*-66-70-30-60 Aid, Blitz, Charge, Leader, Scout, Vehemence

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Re: Tactics Discussion

Postby Aureal » 02 Nov 2012, 21:36

edwchong wrote:Before I start discussing


How is the next part of that sentence not "...I need to actually read the battle rules"?

*goes to add something else to the list of tactic rules*

Dong Zhou wrote:Aureal, do I need to transfer food at start of battle or can Xie Zhang's unit have some from the start?


What's a Xie Zhang? Did someone put it on the map without food?
Zan Zhikun (38) 108*-85*-102*-48-70* Breeder(e); Jeer; Logistics; Military Engineer; Navy; Reversal; Rumor; Scout; Siegecraft(e); Spy; Terrain; Trap; Wall
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Re: Tactics Discussion

Postby Strategist » 02 Nov 2012, 21:40

Xie Zhang's my character- he's offered to duel Ma Chao with the penalty of his head if he loses. DZ wants to split his unit and give me some cavalry to attack the enemy.
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Re: Tactics Discussion

Postby Aureal » 02 Nov 2012, 22:12

Strategist wrote:DZ wants to split his unit and give me some cavalry to attack the enemy.


Units can't split. If someone else is supposed to be commanding a unit they'll have to lead their own unit out from somewhere.
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Re: Tactics Discussion

Postby Strategist » 02 Nov 2012, 22:53

What if Xie Zhang were to act as an 'advisor' to Pang De, effectively coming along with his unit? Could he challenge Ma Chao to a duel then?
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Re: Tactics Discussion

Postby Marzy » 02 Nov 2012, 23:17

8.6 Ploys and Advisors

Here's the rules for Advisors. Seeing as how Pang De is not commandant of the city and is already in the field, I'd think they wouldn't help for anything here, and you couldn't even issue a duel challenge as an Advisor anyhow.
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Re: Tactics Discussion

Postby Strategist » 03 Nov 2012, 05:13

Okay, backup plan then.

According to the rules, "you can complete virtually any task by means of roleplaying" through the Plot mechanic. "Not all plots must be sinister", after all.

Say I were to submit as a Plot that my character borrows a horse and travels with the Pang De army. I can then have my statless NPC Xie Fu submit the letter to Ma Chao then have Xie Zhang (my PC) approach the camp asking for a duel. Would that work?
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Re: Tactics Discussion

Postby Dong Zhou » 03 Nov 2012, 05:19

Aureal wrote:
Dong Zhou wrote:Aureal, do I need to transfer food at start of battle or can Xie Zhang's unit have some from the start?


What's a Xie Zhang? Did someone put it on the map without food?


It's a thing that Pang De and Han Sui have IC agreed can go duel Ma Chao

Also I could use losing those extra troops so I can try an ambush since, with 0 training, I'm relying on it to allow Pang De to put up a decent fight.
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Re: Tactics Discussion

Postby Xeniphon » 03 Nov 2012, 10:51

Strategist wrote:Okay, backup plan then.

According to the rules, "you can complete virtually any task by means of roleplaying" through the Plot mechanic. "Not all plots must be sinister", after all.

Say I were to submit as a Plot that my character borrows a horse and travels with the Pang De army. I can then have my statless NPC Xie Fu submit the letter to Ma Chao then have Xie Zhang (my PC) approach the camp asking for a duel. Would that work?


The rules may say that, but they don't actually mena it (there are a lot of restrictions that are not documented but are enforced). The only plot permitted in battle (that isn't mechanical like Open Gates) is defection. I suppose "betrayal" works too but I figure thats just a variation of defection. Unless the staff have decided to radically change the plot system/rules they can't have anything to do with battle, though how that meshes with the whole map being one large ongoing battle I do not know... We will just have to wait for them to let us see the plot section of the rules before we know for sure what/if they have changed. For the moment though assume that plots can't effect battles.
Oh well, back to the drawing board...

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