[V6 Draft] Chapter 7: Kingdom Turns

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Re: [V6 Draft] Chapter 7: Kingdom Turns

Postby Xeniphon » 20 Feb 2013, 20:05

Ah, I seem to have had a stint of the stupids...

The bonus doesn't change with Spy expertised?
Oh well, back to the drawing board...

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Re: [V6 Draft] Chapter 7: Kingdom Turns

Postby Tian Long » 20 Feb 2013, 20:52

No expertise seems to just allow for multiple cities to be spied on simultaneously
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Re: [V6 Draft] Chapter 7: Kingdom Turns

Postby Sun Tang » 21 Feb 2013, 00:11

Would it make sense to make Mystic a relevant skill instead of Architect, for someone to be assigned to any of the 3 temple structures? I am thinking along the lines of Divination, Religion, Alchemy, medicine, Animal sacrifices, spiritual guidance counselor sorta deal to rulers, officers and public, etc.

Investigator is a relevant skill for many new structures and i see that Lead, War and Charisma and even Pol can be relevant stats depending on the building you are staffing, but i never see the Int stat as a relevant stat. I do not understand why investigator does not get Int as a relevant stat in any situation. You have to be pretty smart to be good at investigating one would think. All the structures in the commandery tree seem at least worthy of a second glance at including Int as a relevant stat. Just curious.
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Re: [V6 Draft] Chapter 7: Kingdom Turns

Postby Xeniphon » 21 Feb 2013, 01:15

Staffing buildings is the new "civil development" so it uses the various development skills. Mystic is a battle skill so to have it be a powerful ploy skill and a powerful development skill would make it too flexible/powerful. Also Int is a realivant stat for the Production Tree and to the Watchtower (the only structure in the Defense Tree that can be staffed), so it is actually there and important.
Oh well, back to the drawing board...

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Re: [V6 Draft] Chapter 7: Kingdom Turns

Postby Sun Tang » 21 Feb 2013, 02:23

Eh i guess if the building have to only have "relevant" skills that are developer skills it makes more sense..not sure why they must be developer skills but whatever.
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Re: [V6 Draft] Chapter 7: Kingdom Turns

Postby Xeniphon » 21 Feb 2013, 02:37

Because battle skills already have a place in battle, development skills are for KTs so to cut them out of KTs in favor of battle skills is a little silly.
Oh well, back to the drawing board...

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Re: [V6 Draft] Chapter 7: Kingdom Turns

Postby Sun Tang » 21 Feb 2013, 02:57

I don't exactly agree with that philosophy, for instance stealth. Used in KT actions as well as battle and same with Leader skill which has dual purposes. But whatever i know development might be special. I will accept it, but i don't think the whole building staffing thing should be exclusive to either no relevant skills or development style skills. Still i dont get why Architect would be a relevant skill when staffing a temple...but i will drop it since it seems it is a dead end.
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Re: [V6 Draft] Chapter 7: Kingdom Turns

Postby Xeniphon » 21 Feb 2013, 03:18

I'm not saying you don't have a point, just voicing the logical arguments.
Oh well, back to the drawing board...

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Re: [V6 Draft] Chapter 7: Kingdom Turns

Postby Sun Tang » 21 Feb 2013, 14:03

Noticed a couple typo's regarding buildings and relevant stats/skills with stats being duplicated.

Stables
Pre-Requisites: None
Cost to Build Building: 1000
Seasons to Build: 1
Special Function/Benefits: Increases the maximum volume by 10% and reduces the unit prices by 3 gold when Producing Horses in KTs. Seasonal Chance that Treasury-Quality Horses are produced. Moderate improvements to Population growth.
Relevant Stat: Int
Relevant Stat: n/a

Limit: 3

Military Complex
Pre-Requisites: Garrison, Martial Academy, Work Prison, Recruitment Center, Forge
Cost to Build Building: 2500
Seasons to Build: 2
Staff: 3-6
Special Function/Benefits: This is a landmark class structure and cannot be destroyed. All troops in the city that have under 75 training automatically gains +1 training each turn. Increases the maximum amount of troops that can be stationed in the location by 500. The maximum Training value for troops trained in this city is raised to 110 (does not require building to be staffed). In Roleplay, troops that have centralized Military Complex can rouse themselves to fight and march in a shorter time. Moderate increase in Population growth, and great increases to Public Safety.
Relevant Stat: Lead or War
Relevant Stat: Investigator

Limit: 1

-----

Rumor (1sp)
Can use Recruit Agents and Rumor KT ploys. With Wile, can use Falsify ploy.
(e) -- Bonus to Rumor-related ploy success rates.


Is there a Rumor KT ploy? I don't see one listed.
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Re: [V6 Draft] Chapter 7: Kingdom Turns

Postby Silverwarp » 02 Mar 2013, 21:24

I just thought about something. Are buildings required to be staffed in order to receive the passive effects? I'm talking about if you build a Garrison (or Barracks), are your required to staff it in order to get the increase in the amount of troops stationed? If it is required, what would happened to the troops over the cap if it becomes unstaffed? Lastly, if the passive effects are in effect (such as the troops example) without staffing required, does that include Garrison's bonus training per turn, meaning that even if the garrison is unstaffed, my troops under 50 training will still get +1 every season?

Also, I know it was mentioned that the building can be staffed on the turn it was finished, but what about building other buildings? For example, if I build and complete a barracks on Turn 1, would I also be allowed to build a Garrison on Turn 1 or do I need to wait until Turn 2 to start a Garrison?

Also, how does repair on a building work? The Arson plot say that structures are damaged until repaired, so is there a repair command or is it simply destroyed and it has to be reconstructed or something else?

Lastly, the staffing requirements are missing from some of the production buildings.
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Re: [V6 Draft] Chapter 7: Kingdom Turns

Postby JohannXIV » 30 May 2013, 13:18

Update
  • Fixed Stat/Skill typo
  • Changed Temple Tree skills to Mystic
  • Fixed Staff requirements on Production Buildings
  • Noted which structures do not require staffing "(does not require building to be staffed)"
Are buildings required to be staffed in order to receive the passive effects? I'm talking about if you build a Garrison (or Barracks), are your required to staff it in order to get the increase in the amount of troops stationed? If it is required, what would happened to the troops over the cap if it becomes unstaffed?


It would require too much double checking and auditing by the staff to make sure that your Barracks and other structures are always staffed in regards to troop counts. Unless I'm over-ruled, I'd say that the passive bonus of maximum troop level would remain regardless of staffing.

Lastly, if the passive effects are in effect (such as the troops example) without staffing required, does that include Garrison's bonus training per turn, meaning that even if the garrison is unstaffed, my troops under 50 training will still get +1 every season?


A clever question, but no. Bonus training is most assuredly an active bonus as the KT writer must go in and add it manually every turn. No active bonuses could be granted by an unstaffed structure. Which is to say, an unstaffed Armory can't produce random seasonal items, an unstaffed Smithy means you can't craft Heavy Arms for units, and an unstaffed Temple Complex won't raise city Morale.

Also, how does repair on a building work? The Arson plot say that structures are damaged until repaired, so is there a repair command or is it simply destroyed and it has to be reconstructed or something else?


That will be answered soon-ish. :|
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Re: [V6 Draft] Chapter 7: Kingdom Turns

Postby webby » 30 May 2013, 14:07

Just an idea.

Change Agriculture Tree to Sustenance Tree and add
the skill Gamesman. A Gamesman is a Hunter/Fisher. The building
would be Game Warden. Cost 750. Seasons to build 1. Staff 1-3.
Increases food production. Small increase in public safety,
slight reduction in population. Relevent Stats Int or War. Relevent
skill Gamesman, Investigator. Limit 1.
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Re: [V6 Draft] Chapter 7: Kingdom Turns

Postby Xeniphon » 02 Nov 2013, 15:54

Going through the KT draft again I noticed a few things I missed before (and apparently so did everyone else).

(edited out the first question, I read it right the first time but skipped over some things the second....)

Second is that in the production tree specifically the buildings offer cost reduction to the produce action, but you can also have multiple buildings. Since it is not noted as not stacking with other buildings (as some other buildings note certain aspects do or do not stack) I think you might want to look at that for balance sake. Sure someone would give up 5 slots to have a Smithy and 4 Bowyers but a -12 gold to the unit cost for bows seems...excessive and abuseable....
Oh well, back to the drawing board...

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Re: [V6 Draft] Chapter 7: Kingdom Turns

Postby JohannXIV » 03 Nov 2013, 03:10

Second question :D
Producing Bows specifically states that no more than 3 Bowyer structures may be used. So assuming the officer has 100 INT, and four building spots occupied with the Smithy and Bowyer (3) that brings the price to 9 gold.

Abusable? Maybe. . .
Excessive? I don't feel that's the case. The major balancing act with v6 structures is the opportunity cost. Taking up 4 building slots to build the cheapest bow means you're not increasing Pop growth, Harvest yield, or Tax revenue. A town only ever gets 5 building slots, and cities are going to need serious investment to get above 10. Unless you're a large kingdom that can take the hit to mono-task various cities, to manipulate the market values of productions goods, the lowest possible price for anything is going to be detrimental to other faculties a city could provide. If a city is mono-tasked, it will still take time to move those products to other cities where they can be useful. There are no more magic roads that traverse 1/3rd of China and transport units are relatively vulnerable to predation.

A serious effort was made on the staff's part to prevent rewarding min-maxing. I don't want to say that's been the major delay in v6, but we've spent some serious time looking at how to prevent easy access to breaking our formulae.
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Re: [V6 Draft] Chapter 7: Kingdom Turns

Postby Xeniphon » 03 Nov 2013, 04:11

If its been looked at and considered balanced then thats good enough.

Now I seem to remember that when officers search and find/recruit an NPC in the KT that they gain some bond with that NPC but I can't find mention of it anywhere. Would such an officer gain some bond with that NPC or is only the ruler granted bond despite the fact that it was the officer that recruited them? You don't have to tell me exact numbers if its secret, I am just considering a recruiter and wanted to know if you gain bond too or just exp.
Oh well, back to the drawing board...

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