[V6 Draft] Chapter 2: Skills

[ShadInquis]

Am I the only one who thinks the names of tactician and strategics should be swapped?

[OneEyedDrgn]

I would say yes?

Why do you think they should be swapped? A tactician is somehow who offers advice, as the skill here represents. Strategics encompasses many different things in terms of military for here, and the tactics that the skill offers in terms of unit movement and attacks outside of just more attack power is represented well here.

[ShadInquis]

Tactics is more of a battlefield skill, strategy is the higher level army planning.

The skills however, Strategics is the one which gives battlefield skills (e.g. rake) and tactician is the one which gives seasonal, TP, campaigns and advisor bonus.

[OneEyedDrgn]

But it's Tactician, not Tactics. Sure someone could be a general or whatever and be called a tactician, but the name implies a role as someone who gives advice. The name Strategics also implies a set of maneuvers, not an overall procedure someone is taking.

In the end I don't see any necessity or real reason to swap them, and I don't think anyone will get confused or have problems with them (Besides you as of now). There are other important issues such as balance that you should be looking for.

[Xu Yuan]

I am curious. Who actually takes Wealth as an option? I would think that "Wealth" should be compounded with another skill. Maybe take Wealth and Networking and turn it into Affluent? With the same bonuses that would come with each into one skill? Granted Networking is an actually useful skill but Wealth loses its value very shortly after the game truly begins.

Or perhaps take Negotiator and Wealth and change it into Affluent? Since Negotiator deals with money all around, deals with banquets, and all of those certain dealings.

[Xeniphon]

With the lower salaries and (possibly) lower starting funds Wealth could be very potent. Remember that Wealth is only wasted if you do something silly like use it to get an extra +1 to +3 item, if you save it along with your starting money then buy something really worthwhile you will keep for the whole game then its hardly wasted.... So many people just go for the quick buy for an extra stat point or two early in the game then end up selling off those items a few months later at a loss....

*shrug*

[Xu Yuan]

Well let me put it this way... is it a skill that You personally would ever choose? And if so, please tell me your reasonings behind doing so. As I know there's barely a member with as good of a grasp as mechanics as you possess.

[OneEyedDrgn]

I wouldn't because of the "I can get the gold later" and rulers bling their officers mid-late game anyway. Then there's finding items in PTs.

I would really just rather spend the 1 SP on another skill which have myriad of benefits.

[Xeniphon]

If I were playing a crafter or recriuter I would certainly consider taking it, particularly as a crafter since you do not start earning money from it until you start selling it so you need some up front cash to start out if you want to make a bundle later. Also for a person who intends to be a free officer for a while (regardless of if its for the extra AP or for RP reasons) that little bit of extra cash until you get hired by a ruler makes all the difference.

On a more speculetive note remember that if you start wiht a good bit of cash and save it there is the chance that you can grab a special item someone is trying to sell in the auction house before others can get their rulers to spring the cash for it.

Also remember that 1 SP doesn't take much time to make up in game, so losing 1 SP right out of the gate is not going to cripple your character, you can just make it up later (especially if your a free officer for a few months).

[Xu Yuan]

Yes, but once again you mention the Start of the Game possibilities. A few turns in and this will no longer be a viable course of action as established lords can't be contended with at the Auction House.

The mention of an extra bit of cash is a bit strange. To what will they use it for or with? They don't have expenses that need looked after nor can they spring for any kind of worthwhile item with that paltry amount of cash.

In your first post you mentioned a hopeful statement that players (and kingdoms if I'm reading it right) will have a slower method of attaining money. A nice hope but I don't believe there's anything concrete on that yet (since a kingdom can still spring whatever it wants for a PC, if I'm not mistaken).

Also you know as well as I do that serious players will try to min-max the game's system meaning they would not waste 1 SP (which may be the difference between having one essential skill or not) on Wealth. Every skill should be viable for every type of player.

I'm not saying to get rid of Wealth, but to combine it with another skill. It's silly to me that this someone with an extra 250/500 Gold at startup can still have an innocuous background where as a normal peasant was lucky to even see a piece of gold within their lifetime. It's for this reason (among the others listed) that I would want to combine the skill with something else which relates to acquisition of money and I think for that Negotiator (a poorly named skill in my opinion as it deals nothing with negotiating and only deals with money to avoid negative consequences and banquets) should be combined with Wealth to make Affluent.

[Kakirot83]

The mention of an extra bit of cash is a bit strange. To what will they use it for or with? They don't have expenses that need looked after nor can they spring for any kind of worthwhile item with that paltry amount of cash.

In your first post you mentioned a hopeful statement that players (and kingdoms if I'm reading it right) will have a slower method of attaining money. A nice hope but I don't believe there's anything concrete on that yet (since a kingdom can still spring whatever it wants for a PC, if I'm not mistaken).

If I can field this one, I can give you a place this would 'help'. I quoted just that part, to answer, just that part.

Earlier in the whole pre-game era here, I for example, brought up to Xeni the idea of whether or not I could pull off three crafting skills at once. While he didn't say 'no', he did point out how hard it would be, especially considering how I plan to be free officer. Flaws he pointed out, were if I ever did join someone, having less Ap to use, and I belive running out of money if I'm dumping into three or more crafts. Also, I run into the problem of, if I'm spending my entire turns on crafting, how am I growing?

I think in the instance of wealth, and as he was trying to point out, my case would be a good example. To the average player, wealth is just more money. There are pros and cons to it. To someone like me, who plans to be a crafter, and have multiple crafts at that, it's going to be a tricky job to manage my resources.

Taking last game, and looking at the, what, 300 starting gold? And saying yes, I could magistrate and get somewhere between 80-120 gold, it was neither definate, nor cheap (AP wise) to only have this as my income. considering you could have, say, 180 AP last game, spending 80+ on just getting the gold to counter the costs of multiple crafting actions, just didn't seem as worth it. you might spend 100+ on crafting, and it can add up gold wise. How now, would you not run out of funds? If you were a free officer, you had to go get it yourself.

For the next version, or even last version at the start, I think he is saying Wealth could very well be your 'automatic magistrate action', allowing you to craft more or larger items. Being able to go as hard and quick towards making a +5 weapon, and then selling that off for a profit, is going to get 'possible crafters' into a state of self-reliance much quicker then just trotting al ong going back and forth between crafting and 'gold gathering actions', and praying everything works out.

Now honestly, that being said, I'm probably not going to take wealth. That's me personally, and has more to do with the skills/crafts I want to take, and how I plan to balance it. Since somethign liek Zeal is gone, I'm sure i'll be going along the lines of Fortunate, and using that to help get random stuff/gold from PT's, because honestly, I liked gathering gold last game, only because it also gets XP for my stats. If you want to be the best breeder out the gates, or possibly want some flew, you might take wealth. Me, I'll probably be a lost cause off the bat, so might as well just go the whole 9 yards, probably have three crafts, take some other odd skills, and run around the country doing PT's and RPing until I get bored and maybe one day, join someone.

For that plan, wealth doesn't fit to me. But that's just me.

[Xu Yuan]

You present an interesting argument Kakirot. There's not much I can say to refute it but what is presented is a single, very rare instance. Again, I am not saying to get rid of Wealth but to combine it with a skill that already has money related dealings and (in my opinion) has an unfitting name. As it stands I can't see too many people picking up Negotiator, but I can see the use it can have, where as for Wealth outside of the rare builds that Kakirot mentioned, I can't see it's worth. Which is why I suggest combining this uncommon skill with this rarely used skill to make the skill balanced for the player base.

Now unless there is something that I am plainly missing by suggesting Negotiator + Wealth should become Affluent. I don't think it's overpowered and it makes the reasoning behind that extra bit of cash more concrete (as the implication then is that you come from a semi-noble or at least a pretending to be noble background)

[Kakirot83]

Actually, I would've imagined that what could've happened was something along the lines of a more even trade, between: Fortunate, Negotiator, and Wealth. Here's what I mean:

Fortunate Is: +good events. -battle injury. +gold PT actions. (e) +gold and success.

Negotiator Is: Pay to get out of trouble. +base salary. Invite PT action. -Banquet costs. (e) +success of invite. -more banquet costs.

Wealth Is: +alot of gold. (e) +alot more gold.

Now, why not make them:

Forunate: +good events. -battle injury. +success. (e) +success.

Negotiator: Pay to get out of trouble. Invite PT action. -Banquet costs. (e) +success of invite. -more banquet costs.

Wealth: +gold. +gold from PT's. (e) +gold. +base salary.

You could almost take just a little from both fortunate and negotiator, make them all 2 SP skills, and they would each have their own kind of realms.

Fortunate is all about success and good things happening, Negotiator is about you talking your way through things, and Wealth is like 'money to make money' as a concept. Now wealth would have the 'quick start' effect for people, along with something to carry along with you past start up. I'm not sure the other two skills even suffer much for what I took from them, hell fortunate has more success now.

I'm sure the one draw back, would be would new wealth be worth 2 sp for base skill, but not too much for only 1 sp?

That's my take on it.

[Xu Yuan]

This is a good idea! It really shares the best with all three of those inter-related skills and could possibly engender someone to pick up all three. But as you said, yes. It may be better to look at the initial SP's of these now if these changes are going to go through.

[webby]

[2.2 Skill List]


Counter (1sp)
When leading ranged units, if this character is attacked with a Ranged Attack, this unit will counterattack.
(e) -- Ranged counterattacks deal the same damage as normal ranged attacks.

Is this a ranged unit only skill?