[V6 Draft] Chapter 8: Battle Rules

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Re: V6 Battle Rules Draft

Postby ShadInquis » 19 Jan 2013, 13:29

Are the trap mechanics the same as V5? I have not seen mention of them.
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Re: V6 Battle Rules Draft

Postby Xeniphon » 19 Jan 2013, 13:40

As there are no comands or ploys for setting traps it is fairly safe to assume that the skill has been removed. We will not know for sure until the staff reveal the skill rules, but I'd say its a safe bet.
Oh well, back to the drawing board...

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Re: V6 Battle Rules Draft

Postby ShadInquis » 19 Jan 2013, 13:49

Xeniphon wrote:As there are no comands or ploys for setting traps it is fairly safe to assume that the skill has been removed. We will not know for sure until the staff reveal the skill rules, but I'd say its a safe bet.


I am not too concerned about the skill reshuffle. What I am interested in is the usage of traps in battles. Traps are a key part of the game (and RTK in general), so I cannot imagine they would be removed from V6.
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Re: V6 Battle Rules Draft

Postby Xeniphon » 19 Jan 2013, 17:41

What I meant was that because there are no comands or ploys to set traps you cannot set traps. It is possible that someone just forgot to add that part in and it will be fixed when the release the skills and everythingelse, but the odds of that are rather low since it would be a significant oversight.

In short I'd say there is a 98% chance of no traps for V6. Its not so odd for us older players as they didn't have them in V3 and the like but for someone who has only seen the V5 rules I can see how it would seem odd.

Part of the issue is probably, I'm not staff so I can't say for sure, that the new map where it is constant rather than new for each individual battlefield and battle terein that setting traps that must then be tracked is not only difficult bookkeeping wise but makes traps too powerful since unlike where they would exist for a single battle if they don't get tripped they could last an entire game. I imagine that the staff could not figure out a way to balance things out well enough and so took traps out until/unless they can figure it out.

For now I suggest you not expect traps, if staff puts them in befor egame launch then its a pleasant surprise (but I wouldn't hold my breath).
Oh well, back to the drawing board...

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Re: V6 Battle Rules Draft

Postby ShadInquis » 19 Jan 2013, 23:12

Well, I guess we have to wait and see. The battle of Luo Yang is coming to an end, so I guess we will see the next stage of the pre-game soon.
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Re: V6 Battle Rules Draft

Postby JohannXIV » 26 Jan 2013, 16:02

Xeni is correct. Traps were discussed ad nauseum by the staff and they were removed from battle for the reasons that Xeni stated. It was a nightmare of book keeping and posed too high a chance for abuse.

Take a city like Guang Ling, Wu Wei, or Zi Tong which are relatively isolated and there's really only a couple of reasonable attack vectors to the city. If you've got alliances or good circumstances (like your neighbors fighting amongst themselves), it wouldn't be hard to litter those few vectors with piles and piles of traps thus making your city even more secure. We didn't want to track dozens of traps scattered across a permanent map, or follow 'decay' of those traps so that they weren't also permanent. So for balance and mechanical ease, traps are gone. The benefit RotK has over simRTK is that the battle field is entirely computer run, we have to do things by hand.
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Re: V6 Battle Rules Draft

Postby webby » 01 May 2013, 12:55

JohannXIV wrote:Xeni is correct. Traps were discussed ad nauseum by the staff and they were removed from battle for the reasons that Xeni stated. It was a nightmare of book keeping and posed too high a chance for abuse.

Take a city like Guang Ling, Wu Wei, or Zi Tong which are relatively isolated and there's really only a couple of reasonable attack vectors to the city. If you've got alliances or good circumstances (like your neighbors fighting amongst themselves), it wouldn't be hard to litter those few vectors with piles and piles of traps thus making your city even more secure. We didn't want to track dozens of traps scattered across a permanent map, or follow 'decay' of those traps so that they weren't also permanent. So for balance and mechanical ease, traps are gone. The benefit RotK has over simRTK is that the battle field is entirely computer run, we have to do things by hand.


So limit traps to in battle use only, with a per battle use only limit. Problem of permatrap solved, and trap use for players becomes an option. Think about why a trap would not stay on a field... an animal may spring the trap.
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Re: V6 Battle Rules Draft

Postby LukeYB » 01 May 2013, 13:00

webby wrote:So limit traps to in battle use only, with a per battle use only limit. Problem of permatrap solved, and trap use for players becomes an option. Think about why a trap would not stay on a field... an animal may spring the trap.


This doesn't really apply to the new map for V6 though. Battles aren't a separate turn-by-turn thing anymore but fluid within the game map itself. Therefore traps would be a nightmare to regulate.
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Re: [V6 Draft] Chapter 8: Battle Rules

Postby Tarrot » 09 May 2013, 15:49

If you made traps cost money, have a set length of time they're allowed, then somewhere that has obvious chokepoints would be a waste to set traps, because you'd spend all that money just for someone to scout and disarm a trap, considering you'd need to set it within a couple months. That said, if the bookkeeping was the issue, that'd be irrelevant.
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Re: [V6 Draft] Chapter 8: Battle Rules

Postby Xeniphon » 09 May 2013, 17:17

*nod*

Its the bookkeeping....

I'd love for traps to still work but staff already gets overwhelmed with what they need to keep track of and traps would slow progression of the turns down as well as increasing the number of potential mistakes through increased complexity. Now if someone could figure out a way to handle this I imagine staff would consider it more seriously but about the only thing I can think of would be to autimate some things and we just don't have the ability to do that in any reasonable way.
Oh well, back to the drawing board...

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Re: [V6 Draft] Chapter 8: Battle Rules

Postby Suicide Fox » 28 May 2013, 11:47

I forget, how does TP work over here? If you have 100 TP and charge costs 30 TP... are you able to use charge 3 turns consecutively until you run out of TP?
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Re: [V6 Draft] Chapter 8: Battle Rules

Postby Mat » 28 May 2013, 12:12

In the scenario you presented, you could do Charge three times in a row. Keep in mind that, depending upon your character's stats, you might be able to use Charge four times in a row, since you're regenerating TP at the end of each month.

All Ploys have a cost associated with them, this is the cost in Tactics Points. For each unit TP is equal to its Commander's (Lead+War+Int)*(0.5). Tactical Points are used to execute special manuevers and ploys, which are the heart of advanced strategies and battles. Each unit will regain TP at the end of each month.


At the end of each turn, all units will eat food from their Supplies. At the end of each month, all units on the field will regenerate (Int/2) TP, not going beyond their maximum TP.
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Re: [V6 Draft] Chapter 8: Battle Rules

Postby Memento » 29 May 2013, 03:19

I propose that the formations be reworked.

For instance, when adopting a formation the unit must remain stationary, effectively losing both their movement and action phases. And all formations would break if the unit becomes dispirited or confused enough. However, the effects are much stronger and much more niche.

For instance, a turtle formation that makes the the unit immune to archery attacks. It takes an action phase to break formation though.

Or a formation that makes the unit strongly resistant to attacks from a certain direction.

Or a formation that is designed to resist mounted attackers from a certain direction.

Or something like the 8 gates, where the formation is unable to move or act, but gains a large defensive bonus to melee attacks and is able to attack adjacent targets only. This formation would be strategically placed near a location the opponent has no choice but entering. It would take a turn to break and could not maneuver at all, giving up a lot of agility as a tradeoff.

The idea here is that, instead of a passive stat benefit that you can get while otherwise fighting normally, it's a substantial and tactical tool that can only be used at the cost of being unable to do anything else for a sustained period of time.

That is, instead of just powering up a unit and delivering a slightly stronger attack, you can envision strategies that rely on stationing defensively oriented units in front of archers, choking key locations, frustrating volleys while allowing fire attacks to do the damage, etc.

Instead of just being a slight consideration, formations would become a new tactical dimension.
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Re: [V6 Draft] Chapter 8: Battle Rules

Postby Sun Tang » 31 May 2013, 23:03

Noticed that scout is not a relevant skill with probe movement in battle rules. Maybe intentional, maybe not. I dunno.

Scout (1sp)
Greatly increased success when using Probe movement.
(e) -- No MP penalty for using Probe movement.


Probe
TP Cost: 15
Skill Requirement: None
Unit Requirement: None
Restrictions: This ability must be activated at the start of a unit’s move.
Description: At the beginning of the turn, the unit will start off with 25% less MP. By adopting strict measures on vigilance, the acting unit moves carefully, greatly increasing the chances of detecting enemy ambushes before they are sprung.
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Re: [V6 Draft] Chapter 8: Battle Rules

Postby JohannXIV » 31 May 2013, 23:48

Relevant and Required mean different things. Anyone can Probe, people with Scout are just much better at it.
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