V6 Map Feedback

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Re: V6 Map Feedback

Postby JohannXIV » 08 Dec 2012, 22:29

Lionheart wrote:Wait, does that mean that you can't build roads through swampland?

I have to suggest that this should be allowed, just at an increased cost. Maybe 300 or 400 gold instead of 200.


Keep in mind that there are roads and paths in such places. However the roads displayed on bigmap are large enough to march armies over. Altering a swamp or hill or mountain enough that 10,000 armed troops can march over it without adverse effect is a major civic project and not something that can be thrown together in a few weeks. Making those same alterations to flat assumably arable land is drastically easier.
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Re: V6 Map Feedback

Postby Xeniphon » 08 Dec 2012, 23:05

Roads over swamps wouldn't make much sense without a lot of work but bridges would not be so difficult considering you can build them across swiftly flowing rivers. I do think its not "needed" but it is "reasonable" logicaly and likely would not adversely effect game mechanics. I'd not go so far as to say that I would insist or even suggest it, but I wouldn't mind seeing it and it is certainly something that staff should toss around a bit (some player or another is bound to try it at some point).
Oh well, back to the drawing board...

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Re: V6 Map Feedback

Postby thegrandmystic » 08 Dec 2012, 23:42

Though plank roads here on RTK have been described in the past as being spiked-in planks allowing traversal of hills and mountains, they were especially useful for traversing swamps and marshes and other places lacking hard ground. Speaking of which, are there even any plank roads on the map currently besides that small sliver of a path south of Chang An?
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Re: V6 Map Feedback

Postby Xeniphon » 08 Dec 2012, 23:44

I suggested the ability to build plank roads and was told no go, which is too bad but no is no.
Oh well, back to the drawing board...

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Re: V6 Map Feedback

Postby Lionheart » 09 Dec 2012, 02:26

JohannXIV wrote:
Lionheart wrote:Wait, does that mean that you can't build roads through swampland?

I have to suggest that this should be allowed, just at an increased cost. Maybe 300 or 400 gold instead of 200.


Keep in mind that there are roads and paths in such places. However the roads displayed on bigmap are large enough to march armies over. Altering a swamp or hill or mountain enough that 10,000 armed troops can march over it without adverse effect is a major civic project and not something that can be thrown together in a few weeks. Making those same alterations to flat assumably arable land is drastically easier.


Then why not make it not only cost more but take longer to build? Twice the time, twice the money involved.
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Re: V6 Map Feedback

Postby Jolt » 09 Dec 2012, 17:58

Lionheart wrote:
JohannXIV wrote:
Lionheart wrote:Wait, does that mean that you can't build roads through swampland?

I have to suggest that this should be allowed, just at an increased cost. Maybe 300 or 400 gold instead of 200.


Keep in mind that there are roads and paths in such places. However the roads displayed on bigmap are large enough to march armies over. Altering a swamp or hill or mountain enough that 10,000 armed troops can march over it without adverse effect is a major civic project and not something that can be thrown together in a few weeks. Making those same alterations to flat assumably arable land is drastically easier.


Then why not make it not only cost more but take longer to build? Twice the time, twice the money involved.


One/two months per Plank Road tile built (Military Engineer skill helps reduce building time), 20% chance of failure each 10 days (Plank Road tile collapses and must be built from scratch. Unaltered by any skill). costs 200/500 gold per Plank Road tile (Civil Engineer skill helps reduce costs). Built plank roads can be burned down by any army in an adjacent square (Only a month after construction to prevent armies camping outside where the plank road will end). If plank road is burned down, all tiles of the built plank road become damaged and unpassable, and repairing them requires 20 days per Plank Road tile and costs 200 gold per Plank Road tile repaired.

That should be draconic enough to severely limit the construction of the plank roads, but still allow them as a strategic alternative to the usual invasion paths.
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Re: V6 Map Feedback

Postby Silverwarp » 28 Dec 2012, 00:32

I'm curious if it would be possible to expand the map or add cities/commanderies in the future versions of the game...or even the current one. After all, it would be nice to have a more historically accurate map if possible. Jiaozhi/Longbian is missing (in fact....the Southern Frontier should probably be renamed Jiaozhou or even Guangzhou...though Jian An historically belonged to Yangzhou). What about the cities in the Hexi Corridor to add a little more barbarian fun? Or how about Koreans in Lelang and Daifang?

I posted some of the information I found here for reference.
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Re: V6 Map Feedback

Postby Xiahou Mao » 28 Dec 2012, 00:54

The province borders aren't meant to match up necessarily with historical provinces, but rather provide us with regions to apply weather effects to. Yeah, Jian An is part of Yangzhou, but it's more likely to share a similar weather pattern with Nan Hai than Shou Chun. That presence of Jian An is why we didn't name the region Jiaozhou, because we knew someone would complain about it if we did. ;)

We won't be editting the city roster for the upcoming game, but we certainly do have the freedom to add or remove cities in the future if we want. We wanted to balance the important historical cities with our new map system, which meant that some cities that are normally mainstays are left out this time. There's no Jiao Zhou, no Nan Pi, no Xin Ye, no Ling Ling, no Chai Sang. Instead we get Bei Di, Bo Hai, Peng Cheng, Nan Chang, and others.

Who knows, future iterations of the game might let people construct cities from scratch, or upgrade towns into full cities. Of course, you guys don't yet know the difference between towns and cities.. soon!
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Re: V6 Map Feedback

Postby An Ying Hu » 28 Dec 2012, 01:00

Xiahou Mao wrote:Who knows, future iterations of the game might let people construct cities from scratch, or upgrade towns into full cities.


Just make sure you don't turn SimRTK into a full-fledged video game. Textual roleplaying is a lot of the charm here ;)
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Re: V6 Map Feedback

Postby Xeniphon » 28 Dec 2012, 01:34

Xiahou Mao wrote:Who knows, future iterations of the game might let people construct cities from scratch, or upgrade towns into full cities. Of course, you guys don't yet know the difference between towns and cities.. soon!


I fully support this idea, it helps small kingdoms later in the game and while big kingdoms can benifit too it means they are forced to spread their officers further than a small kingdom...

As for Towns vs Cities the only thing we know is that your first city lets you send out 10 units of troops with each additional city allowing 5 additional units being capable of deploying at once. Towns allow only 2 units to be deployed. Its in the battle rules but thats the only thing we really know though...
Oh well, back to the drawing board...

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Re: V6 Map Feedback

Postby Silverwarp » 15 Jan 2013, 01:18

I agree with Xeni. Those are actually awesome ideas.

On another note, seeing that the gate is opened on the map at Hu Lao, will there be a way to distinguish what gates are opened on the map? On the map tile Guo Si is on now, it looks to be the same as the gates in nearby Luo Yang. Would it be possible to change the color of the door of the gate to white for example to denote an open gate?

Also, the battle rules say that the gate has to be opened from the "inside" by the enemy. How do we know what constitutes as "inside" on the map? Will it be color coded or would be simply have to know?

I might as well throw this in there too. If the enemy falls back (say the Alliance moves through Hu Lao and get their tails kicked and falls back), would the owner of the gate need to move a unit to the gate to close it after the enemy is not adjacent to the gate or will it automatically be closed once the enemy departs (so would Dong Zhuo need to send someone out to Hu Lao to close the gate or is it automatically locked once the enemy is no longer adjacent)?
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Re: V6 Map Feedback

Postby Xeniphon » 16 Jan 2013, 00:51

Two things I think need to be brought up, the first is more because I can see it being abused and the second is an issue of accessability in regards to battle information.

1) Is there some sort of distance restriction on bridges or on where they may be connected to? I ask since some of those rivers are really big and if you intended them to be places you need to cross via boat rather than bridge you need to tell the players that. Also I can see how players might build bridges along a river bank just inside the river to get around terrain, doing so between Han Zhong and Shang Yong for instance (its not super efficient but it might be tried and once done would get around the rough terrain in a way that wasn't likely intended). The issue here is more of what "is intended" rather than what "is fair" but I do think they are issues that need to be addressed.

2) As a visually impared person and knowing there are other dissabled people here (though probably not as bad as me) I need to ask if staff intend to have a text version of unit information for units on the map? I ask since it is difficult to find and get to the information when you do not see well. Further I imagine this is also difficult for normally sighted people when they need to compare multiple units on two or more sides to eachother back and forth (requiring a lot of clicking and checking, then rinse and repeat over and over). While I don't think every detail of information would need to be there I do think that a text list of units on the map and their current stats/coordinates would make things much easier for players writing tactics (particularly if they are starting to write them part way through an engadgement and do not have all the information already fixated in their minds). A player rather than a staff member could do it, but I do think someone should. The map is great and I love it, but for a fast scan of what force still has what its very inconveniant...
Oh well, back to the drawing board...

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Re: V6 Map Feedback

Postby Xian Zhu Xuande » 16 Jan 2013, 15:00

Xeniphon wrote:2) As a visually impared person and knowing there are other dissabled people here (though probably not as bad as me) I need to ask if staff intend to have a text version of unit information for units on the map? I ask since it is difficult to find and get to the information when you do not see well. Further I imagine this is also difficult for normally sighted people when they need to compare multiple units on two or more sides to eachother back and forth (requiring a lot of clicking and checking, then rinse and repeat over and over). While I don't think every detail of information would need to be there I do think that a text list of units on the map and their current stats/coordinates would make things much easier for players writing tactics (particularly if they are starting to write them part way through an engadgement and do not have all the information already fixated in their minds). A player rather than a staff member could do it, but I do think someone should. The map is great and I love it, but for a fast scan of what force still has what its very inconveniant...

A summary view is something I would like to put together in the future.
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